VFTL. Episode 5: Mike’s Dad. (AKA Dave Waters).

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Starting out as a creative is tough.
Most days are divided into two parts, first you squeeze out as many ideas as you possibly can, second you try not to give up when your creative director tells you they are all crap. Occasionally you may get a ‘nice’, that will keep you going until maybe two months later when you may get a ‘cool’, even an ‘ok’ buoy the spirits.
Encouragement is crucial.
The first person of any note to say ‘nice’ about one of my ads was Dave Waters, although it wasn’t ‘nice’ it was ‘ ‘kin brill‘. it was written underneath an ad for the Starlight Foundation he’d cut out from Campaign and sent to his old partner Jan Van Mesdag, (who was my boss at the legendary Cromer Titterton).
It was very encouraging, Dave was one of the stars from the best agency of the time GGT.
GGT was not only the best creative agency at the time, it was known to have the toughest regime, weekends there were like Mondays anywhere else,

Also, if you didn’t deliver creatively, either your salary was cut or you were fired.
Dave thrived in this environment.
Dave Trott, the ‘T’ on GGT, called Dave his Roy Keane, saying he was hungrier than anyone, ‘the juniors would do trade ads and if they did well they could steal the bigger tv briefs the seniors were working on and have a crack.
Dave was one of our most senior creatives, he’d do all the big ads and then steal the trade briefs from the juniors, he wanted to do everything.’
Had a great chat with Dave, hope you enjoy it.

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(Dave’s wedding invite.)IMG_1635.JPGpatille-hills-balsam-dave-watersITV PRESS ADSITV ARIELSITV SCREENS

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Dave W (above) v Dave T (below).

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'Manual' Daewoo, Dave Waters, DFGW.jpg

This gives me a great excuse to shine a light on Dave’s various stamps and bits of paraphernalia that turn up when you receive one of his letters or packages.Dave Waters - 3 x stamps-01IMG_0065
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An article about Dave and Dave Cook, from his Roy Keane period.Dave Waters & Dave Cook 1-01Dave Waters & Dave Cook 2Press - Dave Trott-01.jpg

IN-CAMERA 3: John Claridge.

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I did this ad for nothing.
My theory was; get freelance work, do it free in exchange for a free hand.
I thought it would allow me to get together better work than I could in my day job.
At the time asking John Claridge to shoot your layout was like asking Jay Z to write your jingle.
The chances are he’s going to say no, but if he said yes, you’d almost certainly have a good ad.
He said yes.
The result was probably the first ad I made that actually looked good.

John Claridge
DAVE: Like Me, you grew up in the East End of London, how was it for you?
JOHN:  Growing up in the East End, the old East End that is, was fantastic.
I loved every moment. Great parents, great mates.
I boxed for six years. I also represented West Ham at athletics and I loved motorcycling (I still have a couple).
Got into a bit of ‘trouble’ but most of all I took pictures.

DAVE: When did you take your first picture?
JOHN: About the age of eight, I spotted a plastic camera at a local funfair in the East End. I just had to win it, it was as simple as that.
I wanted to take home all the memories of that day.
Obviously, I adore eels, stewed or jellied.

We’d go on holiday to Southend and eat fresh seafood, so I thought I’d send this postcard back to everyone.STEWED-OR-JELLIED - John Claridge-DAVE: When did you start to take it seriously?
JOHN: My first serious camera when I was fifteen, bought by hire purchase.
I still have it, but it’s resting now. 04 E1 1966 08 E1 1972
DAVE: What was your first job?
JOHN: The West Ham Labour Exchange sent me ‘up West’.
For a job in the Photographic Department of an Advertising Agency, McCann-Erickson.
Which I got.THE-TRACKS, John Claridge
DAVE: So what was a normal day for you in the McCann Erickson Photographic Department.
JOHN: When I started, the college graduates wouldn’t speak to me, I was told I was from the wrong side of the tracks.

DAVE: You were at McCann’s the same time as one of my favourite designers – Robert Brownjohn. Did you meet him or work for him?
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JOHN: Yes, I not only met BJ but also worked with him on a few projects and I took pictures for him for Typographica Magazine.

We would also spend time in the darkroom experimenting with different types of photographic techniques.
We also experimented with sliding the emulsion off glass plates that I had exposed to different typefaces.
I then manoeuvred the emulsion into different shapes. The plates and emulsion were then dried and projected onto photographic paper showing what could be achieved with distorting typefaces.56 E7 1961 16-ENTRANCE. E.2-65 14-TIGHTS. E.1-67DAVE: How, only a year or so after getting your first job, did you get yourself an exhibition ?
JOHN:  BJ and Ross Cramer, as well as many Art Directors, liked my East End documentary pictures, and one day BJ said “You’re going to have an exhibition, kid.”
An offer I couldn’t and wouldn’t refuse.

The exhibition was said to have shades of Walker Evans. That was when I was seventeen.3c9876c06e8a72872ee1300504a7734e 602373dcd650f09508320de9098ee2a9 6a00df351e888f883401761745ac6f970c-400wi Child.-E.7-61DAVE: Who were your early photography heroes?
JOHN: Walker Evans,                                                                   Bill Brandt,
081   5c9da19f9fdaaf64be57dab612710015
Irving Penn,                                            Robert Frank,      
miles-davis-hand-4-photo-irving-penn-1986   Robert-Frank-Parade-Hoboken-NJ-1955 Avedon,                                                                                 Man Ray,
tumblr_m80gvsjnvp1qfuf1io1_1280,   marquise-cassati-1922
Eugene Atget,                                                 Robert Doisneau,
108-237   an-old-district-of-lille-france-in-1951-photo-robert-doisneau
Andre Kertesz,                                                                         Brassai

Kertesz_The_Fork    brassai_4
and Josef Sudek.
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DAVE: I read that you just turned up on Bill Brandt’s doorstep one day?
JOHN: Yeah,  I went to his home in Hampstead to give him one of my prints.
I was seventeen.
He was lovely, gentle and polite. He invited me in and asked my opinion on some work he was doing I walked away feeling ten feet tall.5437640881_690123ac9e_b

DAVE: How did you become David Montgomery’s assistant?
Pic-6-CAPTION-The-dress-shot-for-April-Vogue-in-1973-by-David-Montgomery    5558437695_097f361823_b
JOHN:  When I was seventeen and still at McCann’s, I was recommended to David by BJ, Ross Cramer and Terry O’Neill.

DAVE: What did you learn from David Montgomery?
JOHN:  
An invaluable door opened to a new way of thinking about editorial and commercial work. David also allowed me to print, not just for him, but also for
Jeanloup Sieff,                                           Don McCullin
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and Saul Leiter.
saul-leiter-footprints-1950  saul-leiter-031
DAVE: I only discovered Saul Leiter three or four years ago, he went straight into my top five photographers, what was he like?
JOHN: A good man, a real pleasure to print for. Also very laid back.

DAVE: You go it alone at nineteen, opening your own studio, you must’ve been a confident kid?
JOHN: I just needed to take pictures.

DAVE: What was the first job you got as a photographer
JOHN: My very first commissions were for Management Today, Queen, Town, Harper’s , and Nova Magazines.MANAGEMENT TODAY- HORSE John Claridge, Management Today 'Alfa'-01John Claridge 'Lathe' Management Today-01John Claridge, Management Today 'Fire'-01 John Claridge, Management Today 'Pepsi'-01Lester Bookbinder, Management Today 'Blood Tube'**-01John Claridge 'Pepsi 2' Management Today-01John Claridge, Management Today 'Sky'-0109 E15 1960 3 Harpers 1969DAVE: Who were your early clients?
JOHN: A lot of cars and countries; Bahamas, Indian Tourist Board, English Tourist.
Cars? Audi, Rolls Royce, Porsche, Citroën, Ford, I’m sure I’ve missed a couple.
John Claridge - Kodak, 1978 John Claridge - Paul Leeves 'Panty Pads'-01VICHY-COSMETICS-1972 LLOYDS-BANK-1975 John Claridge - FRENCH-TOURIST-BOARD-1974DAVE: What was “Five Soldiers”?
JOHN: A film I did based on an American Civil War tale, comparing it to the war in Vietnam.
It caused a riot amongst the students when it was shown at a university campus in the US, and ended up getting banned, but made its way onto the underground circuit.
The press compared the film to Luis Buñuel.

DAVE: Unusually, you’ve done great stuff across the map; portraits, landscapes, still life, cars, reportage?
JOHN: Yeah, I’m a photographer.

LANDSCAPE:
John Claridge -New York Sunset-01John Claridge - Canal-01 copy

Geoff Seymour India 'Live Like A King'-01
DAVE: The ‘India’ campaign still looks great. Were there layouts or did you just find the shots when you got there?
JOHN: With headlines from Geoff Seymour, rough layouts from Graham Cornthwaite, Graham, myself and my assistants went off to India to explore and discover what we could do with their brief.
India 'Kashmir' John Claridge-01 India 'Old World' John Claridge-01 India 'Riding School' John Claridge-01INDIA-TOURIST-BOARD-1980Imacon Color ScannerUS TOURIST BOARD 1976
DAVE: Did you prefer Art Directors to give you a tight brief or an open brief?
JOHN: I have no problems with Art Directors giving me any type of brief.
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DAVE: You’re then asked to –
a) Pick some of the most beautiful women in the world.
b) Take them to a tropical island.
c) Ask them to take their kits off.
d) Bank a large cheque for the above.
Nice gig the Pirelli Calendar?
JOHN: Course it fucking was.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERAPIRELLI CALNDAR 19931993 John Claridge 021993 John Claridge 01
DAVE: I’ve written about Qantas Art Director John Knight, very underrated?
JOHN: John Knight was and still is underrated.
Had a lot of fun working with him.
Not only a great mind, a great sense of humour.
Also, he swore more than me.
John Knight, Qantas, John ClaridgeJohn Claridge, Morlands 'Train', DDB-01Morlands 1978'Slow Down'-01John Clarridge, Camera article-01John Claridge, Grant's 'Song'*LDDC 'TELEGRAPH' GGT, Paul GrubbCUNARD '5 Star Restaurants' Saatchi's-01CUNARD 'Restaurants'-01Chivas Regal, David Abbott,  1981-01
DAVE: Rumour has it that you knocked out a couple of Art Directors? And I don’t mean with the quality of your pictures.
JOHN: YES!

PORTRAITS.
John Salmon NOVA John Huston 1966 JH Paul Arden 1989 Alan Waldie David Bernstein 1984 Ronnie Kirkwood Terry Gilliam. Design+A D1986
DAVE: How did you start shooting the jazz portraits?
JOHN: I shared the lease of 47 Frith Street, Ronnie Scott’s Jazz Club, with Ronnie, (below) and Pete King for fourteen years.
I had the two top floors of the building where I had my studio, office, darkroom and lived. So each night I used to go to sleep listening to jazz, which was great (that is, if you loved jazz).
RONNIE SCOTTGEORGE COLEMAN01

DAVE: My favourite was Chet Baker, what he was like?CHET BAKER
JOHN: Chet Baker was a very charming man.
While I was telling him about the first time I 
ever heard him play was on an EP called ‘Winter Wonderland’ that I had bought when I was thirteen; he hesitated, thought and told me the line-up and then just looked towards me with all his memories.
Then I took the picture.
John Claridge - Ilford Guy-01 copyWRANGLER_PRESS_Biker_VicarDAVE: You’ve shot Britain’s most famous comedians, who made you laugh most?
JOHN: Tommy Cooper.
When he looked at me, it was very difficult not to break into laughter.

We did three rolls of film and it was getting intense, quite serious.
He said ‘This is serious, isn’t it?’, and I was in fits of laughter.
He was courteous to me, and when I said I loved Laurel & Hardy, he started doing impressions of Oliver Hardy until I had tears running down my face, I had to stop him.
I think the pictures tell the story, there’s some fun photographs and some serious photographs – I know he had demons, but I found him a very lovely man, very gracious.
Tommy Cooper - John Claridge
The Frankie Howerd shoot was interesting.
He was up and down. Funny one minute sad the next.
Quiet a few demons I think.
John Clardge - Frankie Howard
Spike Milligan came to my studio.
We sat around listening and talking about jazz for a couple of hours before I shot a picture.
Another lovely man with a very deep sense of humour.

John Claridge - Spike Milligan
DAVE: The ad you did with Derrick Hass for the Covent Garden Art Company is amazing, it could run tomorrow unchanged.
(If they were still going…people sent out for artwork…computers didn’t exist…)
JOHN: It was hard to find the model for that shoot.
john-claridge-face-covent-garden-art-co-derrick-hass*DAVE: You spent a bit of time modelling, the other side of the camera?
JOHN: Ha Ha.
John Claridge, Ilford Films ad, Aspect*John Claridge, 'Portfolio Cover'-01John Claridge, Direction Cover-01SONY Tapes 'Van Halen'-01SONY Tape 'Piano'-01
DAVE: Who was the best Art Director you worked with?
JOHN: This is very difficult to answer as I worked with all the best Art Directors in the business. Not just Art Directors, but Designers, Copywriters and Typographers.

DAVE: You seemed to create a new, very distinctive portrait style, with those very dark, moody Klaus Kalde lith prints?
JOHN: I, myself, in the darkroom was exploring different printing techniques for portraits and separately with Klaus exploring Lith printing. John Claridge, 'Business Pages, AMV-01John Claridge, Old Holborn, 'Swiss Roll', JWT-01john-claridge-poppy-richard-dfd-bozell*
STILL LIFE.END VALVE img245 PRETTY POLLYimg246

John Claridge - Nat WestJack Daniels 'Bottle' BMP-01Jack Daniels 'Labels' BMP-01
John Claridge - Porsche-01
DAVE: What ad were you most pleased with?
JOHN: Without question I worked in the golden age of Advertising with like-minded people who all had an opinion and passion about communication. It was not run by a committee of visually illiterate people with no soul, which seems to be the norm these days.
However, I must say that, in my mind, there are a few exceptions but sadly very, very few. So I feel I was extremely lucky to have had a great deal of fun, crazy times,
seen the world and produce, I think, some important work.
Many talented people 
made that possible.

DAVE: Do you think digital technology has helped photography?
Experimenting is now easier, but I see less of it?

JOHN: Like any new technology, it has it’s pluses and minuses.
For me photography should come from the heart. not the head.
Which ever way you want to run with it.

DAVE: Did you meet Avedon, Penn or any of your photography heroes?
JOHN: Just Bill Brandt. Not just a great photographer, but also a very charming man.

DAVE: What do you shoot with today?
JOHN: Cameras.  Anything, I’m not a camera freak.

DAVE: Do you still print your own stuff?
JOHN: Of course.

DAVE: What photographers do you admire today?
JOHN: Robert Frank.                                          Sebastiao Salgado.
d0bc5cee-66b7-4aee-9456-b5bd4876f0e4-1020x681   Sebastiao Salgado:Dave Dye
Sarah Moon.
Saah Moon, dave dye
DAVE: You seem seem to be publishing more books these days than J. K. Rowling?
JOHN: Hopefully a very important one next year. Will keep you informed.

 

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Andy McLeod Interview.

 DAVE: Why advertising?
ANDY: I was quite quick tongued, bright at school, without being very academically gifted or driven.
I cared about ‘stuff’ in general, zeitgeisty stuff; trends, tribes, what was cool what wasn’t, what was funny what wasn’t.
I liked art and English at school and not much else.
Got not very good A-level grades, which led me to Bristol Polytechnic to do a two year course in Business studies with advertising.
The advertising bit of it was 1 hour a week with a guy who had obviously worked at a printers or something so it was all about type and copper rollers and stuff like that, which didn’t seem very relevant but did leave me thinking about the creative side of advertising.
Also I met a mate on the same course who kept talking about how he was going to leave the course and do a D&AD course – Davie Hieatt, who remains a top bloke.

 DAVE: What did Hounslow College teach you?
ANDY:
So Hounslow was at the time considered the second best (out of two) courses teaching you how to get an advertising portfolio together.
I did a copy test thing for Watford (no.1) – do an anti smoking storyboard, how would you describe toast to a martian, that kind of thing – and enjoyed it.
Evidently more than they did because I didn’t get in.

Which actually made me realize I REALLY had wanted to get in, and was left a bit stung by it. My first real taste of putting your soul out there for others to criticize which is what its all about after all.
So I got into Hounslow. Where Dave Morris was busy making sure his course became the number one. He made a lot of us out and about in the industry.

 DAVE: You met your partner of the next 20 years there. Love at first sight?
ANDY: Not really no, but we kind got pushed together by dint of the usual merry go round of copywriter art director couplings and recouplings.
But after a couple of projects it felt right. We both meant it.

DAVE: Which agencies didn’t you get jobs at?
ANDY: All the best ones. But we learnt from very good people when we were taking our book round them.

 DAVE: If you’d had a magic genie who could’ve granted you a wish to have a job in any agency of your choice, where would you have chosen?
ANDY: Well initially GGT; they were our Shangri La, the holy grail. Creatives at GGT in ’87, ’88 were like Gods to us eager students, or premier league footballers with razor sharp brains. Walking around in socks eating toast being brilliant.

DAVE: Who did you want to be; Trott? Webster? The spiky haired one from Kajagoogoo?
ANDY: I wanted to be any of the GGT creatives, or Chris Palmer, Mark Denton, or Tom Carty or Walter Campbell.
We were in awe of them, but they took time in their evenings to slag our book off when they could’ve done something more interesting.
We learnt so much from them.

DAVE: You’re offered a job at a new third wave agency Butterfield Day Devito Hockney.
ANDY: Kind of.
DAVE: There’s a previso.  You’re told ‘You’re one of two teams we’re taking on, but we’ll let go of the second best one in three months’.
A pressurised start?
ANDY: Yes, but brilliant. And no harder than getting anywhere near an agency in the year or so before; that taking your book round, changing it, going back, getting rebuffed, going again- that makes you or breaks you, doesn’t it? Even before that, 6 months into the college course, you knew the casualties would be heavy, that most of the class were going to be crucified out there.Andy McLeod, UviStat 'Children' BDDH Andy McLeod, UviStat 'Woman' BDDH.jpg
DAVE: Derek Day trained some great people. What did he teach you?
ANDY: He taught me intelligent writing, thoughtful thoughts, and go go go again.Andy McLeod, Honda 'Measure' BDDH-01Andy McLeod, IPA 'Cards', BDDH-01Andy McLeod, ITV 'Doomed' Radio. BDDH-01Andy McLeod, Thames 'Darts', BDDH-01DAVE: Why leave for DFGW?
ANDY: We loved Dave Waters and Paul Grubb, who had gone from GGT to start DFGW. We had idolised them since those days, and couldn’t resist.

DAVE: What was the difference between BDDH and DFGW?
ANDY: We learnt how to write ads at BDDH, we learnt about the job, the whole thing.
At DFGW we learnt how to do TV.

DAVE: What did you learn from my Emirates stadium neighbour Dave Waters?
ANDY: How fun and silliness are absolutely viable tools to make powerful advertising.
The economic value of fun and sillines.

DAVE: What did you learn from Grubby?
ANDY: Endlines.
Short form writing.
Grubby was known as the king of the end line.
I can’t think of an accolade I’d rather have.

Andy McLeod, 'Taxi'
DAVE: You reluctantly leave DFGW to go to a better agency, BMP/DDB?
ANDY: Reluctant because we loved working for Dave and Grubby.
But BMP was premier league, with a heritage of great work.
And we had to do it.
Andy McCleod, Schweppes 'Non', BMP:DDB.DAVE: Pre-match nerves on your first day?
ANDY: Of course. They had a strong squad.

DAVE: I joined BMP/DDB a few months later and my leaving card from Leagas Delaney said ‘Goodbye’ on the outside, and on the inside  ‘…to awards’.
At the time BMP/DDB was seen as quality, but slow and research dominated.
How did you find it?
ANDY: That probably says more about Leagas Delaney than anything else.
I’m sure you remember every single (admittedly brilliant) press ad that came out of Leagas. And there were thousands of them.
But what people in the real world remember is Cresta bear, ‘Watch out there’s a Humphrey about’, the Honey Monster.
I seem to remember Webster saying no research had ever made his ads worse, only better.Andy McLeod, London Trnaspot 'Out Of Your way', BMP:DDB Andy McLeod, London Trnaspot 'Eros', BMP:DDB
DAVE:  You told me recently that you were only there two years.
That’s astonishing, you did a mountain of work?
ANDY: Thanks. I think it was 2.5 years. But not sure._522_5_b4473ff856414235d1b18c35c9ded53b Andy McLeod, Labour 'Laurel & Hardy'DAVE: Did you work with John Webster?
ANDY: Yes, in our second week we presented a Walkers TV spot to him. Webster had started the Gary Lineker campaign a year or so before I think?
We wrote one which had Cantona doing his Crystal Palace kung fu kick (he’d executed it that season), but it was on a crisp-eating Linekar in the crowd.
I thought is was brilliant. When I’d finished reading it to him, he laughed (so far so good), smiled broadly (yes, yes), and said “it’s not just wrong, it’s a thousand percent wrong”.
We walked back down the long corridor and nearly kept walking back to DFGW.



DAVE: Everyone is a bit anxious until they ‘get something good out’, What piece of work settled you in at BMP?
ANDY: We did a Unison ad about public service cuts. Something like “come to a demonstration in the park, just past the old school, by the closed down hospital”.
And we did a party political broadcast for the labour party. John Major’s Pork Pie factory.
And a campaign on the light boards at piccadilly circus; watch out Ken Clarke operating in this area.Andy McLeod, Labour 'Wallets' Piccadilly Circus, BMP:DDB
DAVE: You managed to get the Simpsons to appear in a Doritos ad, ‘Doh!-ritos’, That should’ve been great shouldn’t it?
ANDY: Yes it could’ve been.
Things don’t always go brilliantly though. I think the core idea of Doh!ritos was a good one. Ambitious. But, you know, it just ended up being a bit so-so.
One thing I remember though is it was based around Homer in the nuclear power plant, and we only got clearance from the BACC if we agreed to stop running the ad if there was a nuclear war or a core meltdown in the UK. Erm, yeah, ok.

DAVE: You’re a bit like Marmite Andy.
Twenty years ago that would’ve meant you’re black and gooey, but thanks to you and Rich, people know it means polarising.
Was there resistance to the idea in the beginning?
ANDY: The brief was nothing to do with that, it was still all about my mate Marmite and kids and soldiers of toast and growing up and stuff.
But Rich loved it and I hated it, and it just seemed to us the most polarizing thing on the planet, and had to be useful as a property.
My bravest ever client.
Skoda U.K. were brave, but this lady was something else, hats off to her.

We launched with two 30 second ads; one was ‘my mate marmite’ to that tune, with people loving it, and the jar at the end with the “my mate” logo.
The other was ’I hate marmite’ sung to that tune, with people spitting it out and stuff, and the jar at the end with an “I hate” logo.
She cried on the shoot for the second one, but still had the balls to do it.
I hope she’s as proud of starting that ball rolling as I am.

And no, Dave, I am not like Marmite; everyone loves me.Andy McCleod, Marmite 'Honk if' 48, BMP:DDB. Andy McCleod, Marmite 'You'll honk' 48, BMP:DDB.DAVE: I’ve always thought it was a shame the ‘Use your vote’ campaign didn’t have major backing to run up and down the country, it’s one of the few political campaigns that makes me want to vote.
ANDY: Thanks.

Andy McLeod1490-01 Andy McLeod14ppp-01 Andy McLeod, M-01

DAVE: You reluctantly set up Fallon?
ANDY: Yes, at BMP we got a black pencil (back when they meant quite a fucking lot not absolutely fuck all like now) for a Doritos idents campaign.
And Tony Cox, our creative director, put his head round the office door and said, smiling “what you going to do next year boys?”, then walked out.

DAVE: Scary?
ANDY: Scary but the best decision we ever made. And it wasn’t that we were reluctant, that’s a bit misleading. It’s just that leaving your hardly fought for comfort zone thing, you know? The deep sigh when you know you have to keep moving on to the next thing. It’s not reluctance, it’s just the realisation that there is never time to bask, no wallowing. Clean your kit then straight back to the battle.
Starting the London version of Fallon McElligott was a huge leap of faith for all of us; Michael Wall and Robert Senior knew each other very well, and they knew Laurence Green a bit. Rich and I had never met any of them.
It could have been a disaster.
In fact as far as we could tell lots of people thought it would be.
The usual industry naysayers gave us about 6 months I think.

DAVE: Were Fallon McElligott a big influence?
ANDY: They were great. Really supportive, without being too constraining; they let us make our mistakes and learn by them.
Pat Fallon was a real mentor to all of us.

DAVE: How did you work in the same room as Rich for twenty years?
Let me rephrase that; how did you manage to work with the same creative partner for twenty years?
ANDY: We’d have killed each other apart from the fact that we loved the work we kept producing together.

Andy McLeod, 'Life After Divorce' Campaign article-01
Andy McLeod, Timex 'We've checked', Fallon-01
DAVE: When I set up DHM our schtick was all about truth, ‘truth cuts through’, ‘truth endures’, ‘it’s the age of truth’.
Compiling your stuff here I can see truth was equally important to Fallon London; Skoda, Umbro, Ben & Jerry’s etc.
But, perhaps sensibly, you didn’t bang on about it?
ANDY: We probably did bang on about, I think we are all told we have to have a thing by campaign etc, and we all walk around talking in sound bites for the next ten years.Andy McLeod, Umbro 'Sister', Fallon-01 Andy McLeod, Umbro 'We don't make', Fallon-01Andy McLeod, Skoda '2 logos', Fallon-01

 Skoda_’Motor_Show’

Andy McLeod, Fallon 'Skoda'
DAVE: You lucked out by landing the planet’s best Head of TV very early on? (It says here)
ANDY: Yes we did, she would talk about interesting new directors, and how to make work better, not about where the new place for lunch was.
She was also the world’s greatest Richard and Andy wrangler.

Lee_Jeans_’Bottoms’

DAVE: What did you look for in the scripts and scraps of paper teams handed over for you to creative direct?
ANDY: A truth, a difference, an ambition.

DAVE: Your house is on fire, you can only save one of your ads. Which is it?
ANDY:
Fuck the ads, let’s go.

DAVE: Okaaaay, what’s your favourite ad you’ve done?
ANDY: I’m very proud of Marmite “love it or hate it” being in the country’s vernacular.

DAVE: Your work is very direct. Has ‘direct’ gone out of fashion?
ANDY: Good has gone out of fashion.

DAVE: Which ads make you get all irritable with envy?
ANDY: The ones that are better than the programmes they’re shown in.

DAVE: What’s been the biggest surprise since you switched to directing?
ANDY: I didn’t think it would be quite so different, and in a way it isn’t – everyone’s looking at the same piece of paper albeit from different sides – but going from the big Fallon family, with lots of structure and back up, to the far more exposed world of little old self employed me waiting for a nice script was quite a jolt. I love it obviously, but the pace is very different.

DAVE: Who influences your work today?
ANDY: Everyone and everything. It can’t be about this style or that method. It has to be the right thing for the project in hand. I don’t want a house style, I want whatever is perfect for the idea in front of me, to make the spot as great for that particular idea as it can be. Really I’m just doing what I always did; it used to be all about trying to write absolutely the exact right idea for a brand. And now it’s about trying to direct in absolutely the exact right way for a particular script.

 

 

Jeremy Sinclair Interview

Jeremy Sinclair, Campaign Press Chairman's Foreward-01
Occasionally, very occasionally, a client will ask me advice on how they should judge their advertising.
It’s easy to tell a terrible ad from a great one, but it’s rare to have such a big gap between ideas.
A more likely comparison be trying to assess average against quite good?
good against great?
Some creative people will advise that ‘If it’s right, you’ll feel it in your gut.’
Sometimes true, but not really helpful.

I tend to give them a copy of the page above.
It lays down a more objective way of judging ideas of advertising.
It was written by the Chairman of the Campaign Press Jury in 1980, Jeremy Sinclair.
Just over a decade later, somebody at Saatchi’s smuggled me out a U-Matic* a talk he gave about tv advertising.
(*A U-Matic was a kind of  real-world, 3D version of a Quicktime file that came in a box about the size of  a box of Frosties.)



Jeremy Sinclair, Campaign Press biog, 1982 86923-01

DAVE: Why would a young gentleman from the Sorbonne in Paris go to Watford to learn how to write adverts?
JEREMY: I was 21/22 and, thinking it was time to a get a job, bought a copy of the London Times and wrote to every advertiser.
The idea was to test my letter writing. Most were companies looking for employees.
One was for Watford College of Art, for their forthcoming course on copywriting.
I duly wrote to them, a similar letter sent to all the others, words to the effect of whatever it was they were looking for, I was it.

I went off to Algiers for a couple of months or so, as you do, and came back to find lots of replies, mostly polite rejections. The Watford one said, please do the enclosed Test. There was a second letter from them saying they hadn’t received my Test but would I come for an interview? The date offered was the following day.
I borrowed the airfare from my mother, did the Test on the plane and presented myself at Watford College, Hempstead Road, Herts.
The two interviewing tutors went to great pains to explain they only took as many students as they felt could find jobs.
The were 100+ applicants and 11 places. They’d let me know.

The next day they did. I was in.

DAVE: What did Watford teach you?
JEREMY: Lots of things. What was expected of copywriters, how to write an ad, what a logo was, what a double page spread was, what account men were, how to type a script (video on the left, audio on the right) .
Remember, I knew nothing.
Possibly the most important thing they introduced us to were the D&AD annuals. I remember seeing a Christian Aid ad which showed a fat sausage-fly and had the headline: ‘Fresh food is now flying in to Biafra’.hristian Aid - 'Fresh Food', DDB-01
I thought I can do that.
Also, coming from Watford, you could get a meeting at most agencies.

DAVE: Which agencies rejected you and your cumbersome portfolio when you were released from Watford?
JEREMY: I was turned down by a small agency who specialised in travel. They handled the Channel Islands. The reason for rejection was they didn’t think I would stay.
Another chap on the course got it.
That was the only agency I went where they had a known vacancy.
Otherwise the idea was to see as many people as possible hoping that it would lead somewhere.
My portfolio wasn’t cumbersome. It was an A4 sized book containing about 30 plastic sheets that you slipped your copy between.
Not like now, no pictures, just words describing the picture and then the headline and the copy.

DAVE: Why Cramer Saatchi? Why not join a proper agency?
JEREMY: It was written : Cramersaatchi. They did great work, they were recommended by Dan Levin of Pritchard Wood who knew Charles.

DAVE:
What was the company you joined like? 

JEREMY: There were four people + a secretary.
Ross & Charles, John H & Mike C + Gail. The offices were two rooms above the café on the corner of Tottenham Court Road and Goodge Street. ( The same building housed Michael Peters, Boase Massimi Pollitt and David Putnam)

DAVE: Why did they hire you?
JEREMY: I wrote a letter which said:
‘Dear Sir,
I am writing for a job. I want to write for a living.
Even if you haven’t a vacancy, can I come and show my work?
Yours’, etc

DAVE:  I read somewhere that Charles Saatchi especially liked an ad from your book for a  slimming product, a first person story with the headline: ‘Two men offered me their seats on the bus. I needed them both.’ 
JEREMY: It is true, that was the one he liked.

DAVE: Do you remember your first Cramersaatchi brief?
JEREMY:
He and Ross were working for a Dutch department store whose name escapes me, but the idea was that shoes were in the basement, then trousers and skirts, next floor were tops, well you get the idea.
So as a test, they said, do us an ad. I came back with my effort and it was one of the thrills of my life to see the legendary Ross Cramer drawing it up.
The ad? Right hand page : Big headline : How can you find what you want when it’s all over the shop? Left hand page: Picture of a man or a woman from behind scratching their head looking at a very long store guide board.

Jeremy Sinclair 'Video Casting'-01DAVE: What did Ross Cramer bring to the party?
JEREMY:
Ross was talented, irreverent and fun. If Charles was the ambition, Ross was the humour.

DAVE: What was your first impression of Charles?
JEREMY: I took one look and thought to myself, he’ll do.
While Maurice appreciates the theory, Charles is only interested in the practice.
He only ever wanted to know if the work was good. Nothing else mattered.
Charles & Maurice Satchi Laughing
DAVE: You worked with Sir John there?
JEREMY: John, as we knew him in those days, worked primarily with Mike Coughlan then Chris Martin.
The only thing I specifically remember working on with John was the HEC antismoking campaign.
However he was supportive and encouraging to Bill Atherton (my a/d) and me.
He had been in the business for years, won awards and we were as green as can be.
Jeremy Sinclair, 'Ronnie Biggs', Schick, Saatchi's-01
DAVE: Do you remember your first ad that ran?
JEREMY: I think it was for Island Records, but it was certainly no great shakes.
Or it was for the HEC : What happened to Kilmarnock’s children’s teeth when we put fluoride in the water supply?

DAVE: John Knight was an incredibly influential but underrated Art Director, did you ever work with him?
JEREMY: He worked for us for a while. A lovely gentle soul.
Jeremy Sinclair, 'Jaffa - Before', Saatchi's-01Jeremy Sinclair 'Prunes'-01Jeremy Sinclair - Enjoy-01
DAVE: In his book, John Hegarty says he saw your rough of the ‘Pregnant Man’ ad before it was presented it to Charlie, then went straight to his office and threw his own work on that brief straight into the bin.
Were you as confident Charles would buy it?
JEREMY: I didn’t know. I did worry what people would make of it. This was 1969, and it was a strange picture.Jeremt Sinclair 'Pregnant Man'-01
DAVE: Do you think the tone of voice used on the Health Education Council could be effective today? It’s like a caring, but stern, parent.
(Today, the Government are seem to want to be your best friend; ‘Hey You, Join the let’s not get females pregnant gang! #Iheartnotimpregnatingfemales’).
JEREMY: I hope we didn’t sound too stern.
More often than not, we asked questions.
For the Family Planning Association ‘What are your chances of getting pregnant tonight? ‘For the antismoking ‘Is it fair to force your baby to smoke cigarettes?’
Family Planning again ‘Would you be more careful if it was you that got pregnant?’

Saatchi & Saatchi Creative Dept:Sunday Times
DAVE: A picture of the Creative Department turned up in The Sunday Times with a story about transfer fees.
Did that make you feel great or a bit embarrassed?
JEREMY: Nothing really. It was just Charles looking for a headline.

DAVE: The idea behind Cramer Saatchi was to charge a fortune producing ‘creative’ work and awards for big non-creative agencies. Why the change in direction?
JEREMY: Becoming an agency was a natural progression. Clients were coming to us direct. Ross didn’t fancy it, so Maurice joined in.Jeremy Sinclair, 'HEC - Stiff Drink', Saatchi's-01
DAVE: So, are there any ads in D&AD that were created by you but credited to someone else?
JEREMY: Occasionally we entered ads into D&AD that no-one was prepared to own up to.
I think we invented two characters, Don DiLauro and Jake Stouer.
One ad was ‘Has your get up- and -go got up and gone?’ Charles’ I think. Later I entered some work under the name J Rome to avoid conflict problems – We handled both Allied Breweries and Scottish & Newcastle. Jeremy Sinclair 'Nose Smoke'-01-01
DAVE: Who did you want to be; Ed McCabe? Tony Brignull? Truman Capote?
JEREMY: All wonderful, but not what I wanted to be.

DAVE: I imagine Charles wasn’t an arm around the shoulder type of boss?
JEREMY: No, thank God.
Cosmopolitan First U.K. issue: launchScreen Shot 2015-02-16 at 17.33.52Jeremy Sinclair - Husband-01Jeremy Sinclair - k86923-01DAVE: Why were you made Creative Director?
JEREMY: Bill A and I were about to leave to join Webster at BMP.
Charles said, stay and when John goes I’ll make you creative director.
We stayed and he did.

DAVE: Who was your first hiring?
JEREMY: I don’t want to be rude to anyone but it took me a while to get the hang of hiring.
My early choices were hard work.
Then I discovered Ron Mather from FCB and Andrew Rutherford from Benton and Bowles. The agency and my life were instantly better.

DAVE: You were the first Creative Director to pay a writer £100k.
Was that a publicity stunt or was it based purely on Geoff Seymour’s talent?

Geoffery Seymour
JEREMY: A bit of both. We were winning clients at breakneck speed. British Airways had landed and we were short of senior talent.
Seymour made good copy and a good headline.

Jeremy Sinclair - Jury Pic-01
DAVE: Did Charles still write?
JEREMY: Yes, Charles wrote occasionally – on the Tories and of course, the Silk Cut campaign which he invented.Paul Arden, Silk Cut 'Slit'
 DAVE: I’ve heard that Charles had the idea for Silk Cut at CDP?
JEREMY: If that is so ,I never knew it. I don’t know if the painting that inspired him had been done by then.
Jeremy Sinclair 'Baby Smoking'-01Jeremy Sinclair, 'HEC, 'Pregnant Smoking', Saatchi's-01Jeremy Sinclair - Octopus-01Jeremy Sinclair - Car-01
DAVE: From the outside it appears that you stopped writing very early?
JEREMY: That’s the downside of being Creative Director. But there was always the Tories to keep you at it.
Jeremy Sinclair - cold-01Jeremy Sinclair - TR7, Saatchi-01
DAVE: Paul Arden is the best Art Director. Full stop.
His work just doesn’t date.
Was he your hiring?
JEREMY: I was interviewing a writer called John McGrath and he asked if he could bring his art director.
Paul Arden 'Direction Cover'-01
DAVE: He had the reputation of being crazy, perfectionist, completely out of ? You must’ve been the only guy in the world that would make him ECD, but it worked brilliantly?
Paul Arden V&A 'Objet' Paul Arden, Avedon 'Norman Parkinson'-01 Paul Arden Brook Street 'Pencil'-01 Paul Arden, Daily Mail, Paris' In-Situ-01JEREMY: You know why? He was the only one who, when he showed you work, said ‘What’s wrong with this?’ Everyone else wanted you to say how great their stuff was.

Jeremy Sinclair, 'The Mail, 'Impersonator', Saatchi's-01 copyJeremy Sinclair - 'IMB - 'Spoons', Saatchi-01Jeremy Sinclair 'Investors Chronicle'-01Jeremy Sinclair, 'Triumph -Magistrates', Saatchi's-01
Jeremy Sinclair - l86923-01Saatchi posterJeremy Sinclair 'Comrade'-01Jeremy Sinclair, Conservatives 'Trade Unionist' Saatchi & Saatchi-01Jeremy Sinclair 'Hang On'-011984_5
Jeremy Sinclair 'new danger' M&C SaatchiJeremy Sinclair 'New Labour'-01Jeremy Sinclair 'Whammy' John Major_1992_PA_372political-party-windsock-small-64480
DAVE: Traumatic? Liberating? Rejuvenating? How do you look back on leaving Saatchi & Saatchi twenty years later?
JEREMY: Shame we had to, but it’s great fun.

DAVE: Who’s idea was it to start ‘The New Saatchi Agency’?
JEREMY: Bill Muirhead and I had occasionally talked of going our own way – as everyone does.
When the majority of the board of Saatchi & Saatchi decided to give in to US shareholder pressure and fire Maurice, against my advice, I thought I am not going to spend the next few years repairing something I told the board and the US shareholders not to break.
So Bill, David Kershaw and I decided to start again.
We three were meeting in my office in Charlotte Street. when we had a call from Maurice and Charles saying they would like to join the partnership.

DAVE: The only agency positioning anyone knows is ‘Brutal Simplicity.’
Why double the word count and make it less simple, and brutal for that matter?

JEREMY: There’s a huge reason. It is the thinking that has to be brutal, not the execution. You have to be brutal on yourself, not your clients, not your colleagues, only your thinking. It has to be Brutal Simplicity of Thought.

DAVE: Have you written ads at M&C Saatchi? 
JEREMY: Some Tory stuff.
Some for RBS.
Recently some for Ester Rantzen’s Silver Line.Jeremy Sinclair 'Housewives'-01 Jeremy Sinclair 'Bullion'-01 Jeremy Sinclair 'Doubled'-01
DAVE:  Words are Gods. They have the power to make people do things, because they carry ideas.”
“The most powerful of words are small ones. The most powerful of sentences are short ones.”
“If you are smart enough you can write your way round the problem.”
Still feel the same way?
JEREMY: Yes.

DAVE: So you don’t agree with your old chum Sir John is saying words are a barrier to communication? (He should try communicating that thought without using them.)
JEREMY: I think you have countered that rather well. And John is an Art Director.

DAVE: With all the new channels there’s never been a greater need for people who can choose their words well, but never has there been fewer people interested in sweating over the choice of them.
JEREMY: True. I am hoping it is a fad and that it will change.
When ITV first came to the UK, the commercials were pretty dire, but everything produced results.
Fortunately after a while the public became more discriminating, responding to humour, understatement ,seduction and drama.

DAVE: Never been tempted to break away from Saatchi’s? Sinclair & Sinclair maybe?
JEREMY: Frequently, trouble is I am in business with the people I would start an agency with.

DAVE: What is more important to communications; Creativity or Psychology?
JEREMY: Creativity, it has psychology running through it.

DAVE: Name an ad you’d love to have written?
JEREMY: John Webster’s ‘Points of View’ for the Guardian.


DAVE: Snap! 

DAVE: Who’s the best Creative you’ve managed?
JEREMY: In no particular order: Paul, Jeff, Andrew, Simon, James, Ron, Rita, Alan, Alex, Bill, Martyn, Graham, Tom and Mike. Sorry if I’ve missed someone.cached.imagescaler.hbpl.coDAVE: How often do you see something inspiring?
JEREMY: Not often. Not enough.